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is the horse power gain worth the money

 
88chevytruck
V-6 Camaros rule!
Posts: 60
Joined: 05/12
Posted: 09/25/12 11:54 PM

Ok I started buying parts to build a 383 but all my friends say the 400 would put out a lot more horse power with the parts ive already got I have the heads they are afr 227 race ready the cam is lunati 645 solid roller jesel shaft mount rockers 1.6 ratio. dont have bottom end for either I was planing probly buy short block with forged crank rods and pistons either way I go. the 400 short block bout 1200 more than 383 is will the horse power difference really be enough to pay the extra. Money I know they will be some just dont know how much and if its enough justify 1200 bucks my friends think so but I just wanted ask someone with some knowledge in this thanks for any help or info and all the time u all spend on here for free just to help people like me out  

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pepsi1
Big Block power for the win
Posts: 940
Joined: 03/11
Posted: 09/26/12 05:50 PM

Just answer some question's?

Just looking at the size of the solid roller,this is an engine that is not going to be run on the street? Your talking a Cam with a 1.6 rocker has a gain of .043 over the spec you have here. .688 lift in a solid roller cam is a big stick.

Cubes always if you can make the whole build work around what you want to do.

Car, gears,trans, so much more involved then to through you a number. But cubic inches never hurt....Why not build a 427 Small block? Whatever you decide to do you need to build a strong bottom end, as cylinder pressure alone will cave a cast piston in. Your thoughts on a forged bottom end is the only way to go.

Give us a little more info so the other guys can chime in and help you also.

Bob  

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88chevytruck
V-6 Camaros rule!
Posts: 60
Joined: 05/12
Posted: 09/26/12 07:58 PM

It probly be drove work every once and a while but really building it for drag races tired of people pulling stuff out the garage and out running my truck the motor is going in 85 cutlass supreme that already has 4 link. And a ford 9 inch rear with 4.56 gears and full spool im probly going go 5.13 as I be running only 1/8 mile just bought the car havent had hog head off yet so dont know what shape gears really in guy said they dont have alot of miles on them and I have a 400 turbo trans that im have built at local shop not sure what all im have done to trans yet thinking trans brake and manual vavle body with all internals upgraded  

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88chevytruck
V-6 Camaros rule!
Posts: 60
Joined: 05/12
Posted: 09/26/12 08:16 PM

And yeah im going with dart block splayed caps and fully forged crank rods and piston either way I go with 383 or the 400 have thought about a 421 or a 427 or even 434 small block but once again brings me back to is it really worth the extra money over the the 383 its going cost me 1200 more just to go with 400 sbc up to bout 2000 more to go up to 434 but I wont to make right choice as the wife says this is last one I get to build thats why im going all out she says kids need money more than I need gas sucking hot rods if its something like 100 horse power difference or more then it be worth it but if its something like 30 or 40 I figured way spend the money as im already looking at north 10 grand havent done final numbers really dont want see them so if she ask I can say I dont know and I didnt lie 0Smile  

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pepsi1
Big Block power for the win
Posts: 940
Joined: 03/11
Posted: 09/27/12 12:55 AM

Thats better theres somethings that we can chew on now...LOL...

The guys that run 1/8th mile with a small block really need rear gear. Ford 9" with 33 spline axles and a spool set-up correctly will give you good service. (I ran 6:30 in ford 9" with 33 spline axles for years I changed a third member and dropped to 5:67) thats the beauty of the Ford 9". Grin  Cool  

If your interested here is a build I did for my son's friend many years ago on a budget. You can add the GOOD Pieces as you want.
1.Started with an .010 4 bolt,bored it .030. I decked it to 9.000 with a 3.750 crank that we cleaned up.Note cast crank.
2.Pistons were Keith Black signature series #KB 129
3.Fel-Pro steel shim head gasket.(Sprayed with (2) coats of Aluminum spray paint both sides, let dry between coats, and before using, and retorque heads.
4.All the oil gallets were fully ported, all the casting was deflashed, and all oil passages rounded off and smothed. (Time consuming if done the correct way).
5.Used a Scat 400  cast crank
6.Used Oldsmobile Diesel rods that were reworked. A good H or I beam forged steel rod will safice. Again now a Scat 6' rod. We talked about the long and short rod. In this paticular built the 6" rod worked best,You'll see why.
7.Stock early Z28 oil pump, that was reworked.
8.We used a Moroso Stock Drag Race oil pan. Pick-up (By that I mean we didn't spend $500.00 on it it was
9. The cam was an MM&S MMH300-4
10.Lifters were MM&S
11.Valve train as MM&S with 1.6 intake and 1.5 exhaust pushrods,springs,retainers, and timing chain set etc.
12.Don't laugh, fully Ported brand new set of Cast Iron #186. (175CC vol. 265cfm @.600 valve lift): Bronze valve guides: new 2.02/1.6 (30-degree intake intake cut) and angle milled to 58cc's.
13.Intake was a Victor JR. With a thermal coating as a barrier on all runners and the plenum.
14.Holley 850CFM reworked with a 900CFM base plate to flow 940CFM...
15.Standard HEI reworked and recurved. With an MSD Module.
16.13/4" Hooker Competition Headers with 3" collectors
Continued, Grin  Cool
Bob  

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pepsi1
Big Block power for the win
Posts: 940
Joined: 03/11
Posted: 09/27/12 01:55 AM

Continued:

The engine was 406 Cubic inches. Peak torque was at 5350 RPM and remained flat to 6200 RPM. Thats why it pulled so hard.

Peak Horse power was @ 6900RPM and at a corrected horse power @300RPM acceleration rate/per second. Thats where he ended the graph. It was pulling into the twilight zone. I didn't tell my son. I know they would have gone there.

This goes back to Nov, 1985. So things were a little different. The total cost back then was less the $3,000. Parts and machine work....This was really a sportsman engine, back then. But will definently still work today.... It really had a small cam for the way it performed on the dyno....

Now your using a bigger solid roller cam so your RPM will be somewhat higher. Your 850cfm Holley, and aluminum heads.Your cam will put you in that range 7500 again depends on your induction set-up. Thats where the 6" rod will help your gain. Where you can't see it, but as I tried to explain we had to put a bigger carb by nearly 100cfm, and a 1" spacer under it. It was jetted fat. .088 primary and .090 sec. with 4.5 power valve both ends. The vacuum was 9"hg. I don't like to lean on the engines I build unless there is a lot of money riding on it. If the person I sell it to wants to lean them down thats their engine then. You can always tell when an engine went lean,then destroyed itself....

HEAY I HOPE I CONFUSED YOU...LOL... I have many,many other combos, it's time to start giving something back to a hobby I enjoyed since I was actually 7 years old with my dad. His 1940 Indian scout? carb he had me take apart. I won't tell you how many years that is, you ask the questions. There are NO STUPID QUESTIONS, only STUPID ANSWERS...LOL...I'm sure if I can't answer your question someone on the Super Chevy forum will help out.....LOL...

Bob  

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88chevytruck
V-6 Camaros rule!
Posts: 60
Joined: 05/12
Posted: 09/27/12 09:12 AM

Yea as induction im not going use any turbo or supercharger. so far thoughts are super victor intake and 1050 dominator carb but that was going be another question if you thought that was too much carb and if so what yall recommend and yeah I dont run any motor lean always rich I do what holley recommend I put in jets till smokes and back down one seems do good with my final adjustments  

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pepsi1
Big Block power for the win
Posts: 940
Joined: 03/11
Posted: 09/27/12 10:51 AM

88Chevytruck you miss read it.

The carb was too small. I didn't have a 950cfm all I had was a base plate I knew would flow more fuel. I think a Holley 950 was just right for that build. Like I said I don't like to run on the edge of detonation. I always will go a little fatter (Bigger) on jetting.

As I also said with that big solid roller you have you can probably use more CFM....Holley's tuning set-ups have come along way in35 years believe me...The one thing if you purchase a carb thats too big your stuck with it...I ran (2) 660cfm Holleys on my tunnel ram engine...But I was spinning it to 9200rpm in the big end on 1/4 mile.  

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pepsi1
Big Block power for the win
Posts: 940
Joined: 03/11
Posted: 09/27/12 10:14 PM

88chevytruck:
I found the rest of that note book with different engine combos. They are all proven with Dyno sheets. I won't publish the dyno sheets I'll just give that information to anyone who wants it.

So if you want something different let me know...Okay...Maybe theres a build a little different. Most make around 600 Horse Power. But with all the newer componets you can easily make more horse power and Torque. Torque you can move around with cam timing and ignition timing.

Bob  

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pepsi1
Big Block power for the win
Posts: 940
Joined: 03/11
Posted: 09/28/12 09:43 PM

88chevytruck:

More info on a long rod, and the good, and the bad, and the ugly of them.

The only bad situation to Long Rod Engines, as I talked about the Dwell time at ATDC is really wasted time at ABDC/ the most effective combustion pressure is somewhere around 15 degrees to 55 degrees at ATDC.

I can't stress enough a Good pair of Cylinder heads are where your Horse Power is really made. (Period).Pistons are like elevators/ they are going up, and down. Volumetric effecency is another key to power.

Induction, and the working together combination is really like (A Hole in one in Golf). That's your Cylinder Heads, Camshaft, Valve Train componets. They all have to work together also to make a good horse power package.....

Bob  

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88chevytruck
V-6 Camaros rule!
Posts: 60
Joined: 05/12
Posted: 09/29/12 04:29 PM

THanks for the info Pepsi and  I seen u said u had alot of combos for 600 hp engine that is bout where id like to be but my only prob is I have the cam the lunati 645 645 lift and the afr 227 race ready heads do u have any combos that would work with them two pieces to put me bout 600 hp in that range atleast  

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pepsi1
Big Block power for the win
Posts: 940
Joined: 03/11
Posted: 10/01/12 12:54 AM

88chevytruck:

When do you need the info. I have many combos. Yell me what your putting the engine in.
1.Whats the engine going in
2.Approx weight with driver
3.Trans type manual/automatic
4.Rear gear ratio
5.tire size How tall are they?

I can do something to help you out, Okay

Bob  

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pepsi1
Big Block power for the win
Posts: 940
Joined: 03/11
Posted: 10/01/12 12:58 AM

88chevytruck:

If you want so we don't take up a lot of space PM me Okay. What is your time frame?

Bob  

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pepsi1
Big Block power for the win
Posts: 940
Joined: 03/11
Posted: 10/02/12 12:49 AM

88chevytruck:

I looked through Lunati. Do you have either of these cams.

P/N 40120910 .280/.284  .640/.645

P/N 40120940 .276/.286  .640/.645

Let me know if you what you have. You have a stout cam either one.

Bob  

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pepsi1
Big Block power for the win
Posts: 940
Joined: 03/11
Posted: 10/02/12 12:58 AM

88chevytruck

Is this a special grind that was made for aspecial application. I couldn't find a .645/.645. Give me some help....Okay If you don't want my help let me know that also okay....It takes alot of time to start putting together a High RPM High Horse Power package. Good Luck....

Bob  

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