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Corvette Will Not Start

 
Texan1954
I love my Chevy Chevette!
Posts: 5
Joined: 12/11
Posted: 12/05/11 09:10 PM

After Driving One Afternoon And Parking In The Garage, I came Out Later Only To Find The Car Would Not Start, Not Click No Nothing.I Have Lights, Horn ,Engine Check Light, Etc But Nothing Else.I Pulled The Starter And Solenoid Had Them Tested And They Were Not At Fault, Also Had The Alt. Tested , Not At Fault, Installed A New Ignition Switch, Still Nothing , Brand new Battery ,Still Nothing,Pulled Neutral Safety Switch, Took It Apart Cleaned And Checked For Wear Or Damage Found None Re-Installed Still Nothing, All Grounds Seem To be Intact And i Am At My last Nerve With This Problem. This Is The Second Time This Problem Has Come About Except the First Time It Magically Fixed Itself, Never Did Find The Problem And No Parts Were Replaced, Just Pulled And Tested And All This In A Time Frame Of About 3 Months.I Have This Fear That All This Has Something To Do With The Security In The Car, Although I Have Never Armed Or For That Matter Even Knew That There Was One.I Do Not Know Where To Go With This , And I cannot Even Get It To A Shop For Repairs.I Have Rebuilt The Plug On The Passenger Side All With New Fusable Links And Wiring, All Is Clean And Intact, Installed A Blower Motor Resistor, Had Some Issues With The Blower Not Working. The Only Thing That I Found Out Of Order Was A Plunger Type Connector Mounted In The Passenger Side Quarter Panel With Two Wires, One That Appears To Go Into The Fire Wall And The Other Just Shoved Up Into This Blower Motor Resistor, Since I Bought The Car This Way I Do Not Know What This Is Or For, And When Replacing This Part I Noticed a Wire Hanging Loose That Was Not A Factory Install.The car To My best Of knowledge Is All original, At Least the Motor Is #'s Match And has never been Cracked Open,Can't Say that For the Electrical though.If Anyone has An Idea Or An Opinion On What to Do ,I Am Open For Suggestion And Most Greatfull For Any Comment.The Car Has 122K,And Is An 82 Crossfire.We have Owned It Now For 4yrs. And Has Been A Stellar car Up To This, Not Very Fast But A Heck Of Alot Of Fun, Would really Like To have her Back On the Road.  

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waynep7122
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1114
Joined: 08/09
Posted: 12/05/11 09:56 PM

lets take a look at the starter wiring on an 82...  its the right half of the lower wiring...

C3starter79 82  

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waynep7122
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1114
Joined: 08/09
Posted: 12/05/11 10:42 PM

you did not mention if you have an automatic car or a stick shift car..

the stick shift cars have been having problems lately with the contacts burning away in the clutch interlock switch..  so they don't send the full current needed to engage the starter...

let me describe the circuit..

lets start first with some CONFUSION...  see the left lower side of the starter motor..

there is ONLY ONE coil winding in the solenoid. its Grounded through the starter motor like is shown in the hold IN coil..    through the pair of positive brushes.. the armature.. the negative brushes then the case.. then to ground via the end bracket if its attached properly.. or the starter nose where its bolted to the block...   with this sort of ground circuit.. if you have a bad starter motor..  worn brushes.. worn starter bushings...  you MAY experience intermittent NO starts..

let me continue to describe how the starter works..

when the OVER 50 amps of power comes down the purple wire to the S terminal...    the bottom stud on the solenoid is grounded through the brushes and armature as above left..  the magnetic field created by this flow of electrons around the core pull the plunger in really hard..  pushing the starter drive gear into the flywheel...   as the plunger hits the bottom of the solenoid bore.. it pushes the button there...  that button is a shaft with a copper disc on the end.. that bridges the big top post on the solenoid and the big bottom post.. at this time.. the starter motor will start to spin...  as there is now battery voltage on the top and the bottom post of the solenoid .... the spinning starter motor  still pulls the power down far enough to create enough ground to keep the solenoid plunger held in with significant less amp draw...  this is the HOLD in function..

it took me a LOT of years to figure this out as its really not well discussed in most books like i have described it..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i have been working on cars for about 30 years... after a year of automotive trade school...  almost all newer cars use a load dropping relay to supply direct battery voltage to the S terminal on the starter solenoid..   while keeping all the other relays and interlocks..  

this takes the huge load off the wiring of the car...

imagine .. the 50 amps at least to pull the solenoid in hard enough to push the spring loaded button in the back of the solenoid..  

that circuit starts usually at the battery connection on the top of the starter.. through a fusible link.. up to a terminal block.. over through the bulkhead connector..  to the ignition switch.. to the interlock or neutral safety switch..  back through the bulk head connector..  with a stop somewhere on yours at the theft deterrent interrupt relay..  then to the starter..

on your car.. at least 12 terminals on the end of the wires to connect the battery to the starter solenoid S terminal..  2 passes through the bulkhead connector..


thats a LOT of voltage drop for the starter solenoid..  

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waynep7122
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1114
Joined: 08/09
Posted: 12/05/11 11:07 PM

this should be what the bottom view of your starter looks like..

Starterwiring 1

this is a starter diagram that i drew up..  sort of roughed it out.. i have a better one someplace...

Starter Load Dropping Relay

this reduces the load on the ignition switch and wiring by about 90 percent..

this is a starter relay for a 70 dodge dart with a 318.. so it should be available at EVERY parts store for under 20 bucks..

the Original wire i usually extend with a section of 14 gauge wire with a #12 ring terminal on one end with blue crimp color. the other is a fully insulated female .250" quick connect...   this sends power to the coil winding on the dodge solenoid..   i usually find a small nut and bolt to connect the factory ring terminal i have removed from the GM solenoid position to the length of wire i have extended it with..

the second push on terminal also uses a .250 fully insulated female quick connect.. with a short or long section of wire with a ring terminal to a good body or engine ground..  14 or 16 gauge will work here..

the red wire needs to be 10 gauge.. with a 3/8 or 10MM ID ring terminal on one end and a 5/16 ring terminal on the other..  for the dodge solenoid stud..

the pink wire also needs to be 10 gauge..    with a #12 ring terminals on both ends.. with yellow crimp sleeves..   you will probably need to cut the dodge end of the ring terminal open so you can slip it under the hold down clamp in the middle...

i have done this on a LOT of gm and even a few other cars..  you just won't believe how fast the car starts after you install this load dropping circuit to the system..  


the wire colors are up to you..  please use quality wire..   i normally rob a GM harness from a junk yard for these wire sections..  gives me wire that does not melt as easily.. i usually hang the dodge relay on a heater box stud.. so its out of the way..  this is not going to be an easy install on your car..

please.. use a quality crimp tool...    quality crimps... and quality wire..  look at the home depot/ lowes/ hardware store  for a channellock 909 wire crimp tool..   take a look at the channellock 909.. you might have something in your tool box that puts a dent in the terminals crimp tube.. not just crushes it..  

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Texan1954
I love my Chevy Chevette!
Posts: 5
Joined: 12/11
Posted: 12/06/11 01:04 AM

First Let Me thank You For Your Knowledge And Response So Quick,My car Is An Automatic With A 700R4 trans.This Dodge Part Looks Oddly Enough Like This Blower Motor Resistor I replaced, It Has A Red Like 10 Or 12 Gauge ,Purple Also heavy gauge , Blue Heavy Gauge And A Black Wire And An Orange Wire All These Wires Plug Into This Little Module And Then Dissapearing Into A Harness Right By This 6 Pin Plug That Is On The Passenger Side Going To The Starter. They Are Wrapped In Black Wrap But Are Covered By A Black ABS Type Plastic Cover Affixed To The Firewall. These Wires Plug Into A Little Metal Box With The Same Type Of Mounting Bracket As This Dodge Part. There Is A Plunger Mounted In The Pass. Quarter Panel With 2 Wires Coming Off, One Yellow One White, Small Gauge, One Dissapears Into The Firewall The Other was Just Stuffed Into This  "Blower Motor Resistor", But Did Not See It When I Replaced It So Do Not Know Where It came From, This is Not A factory Thing I Am certain, We Bought The car And This Is The Way It was Found. Upon having The Starter Load Tested Was Told It Did Not Even Sound Like It Was remotely Weak or defective, The Guy Thought It Would have Taken Off If Not fastened Down, I heard it and It Did Sing.Something Keeps Telling Me That This Theft Deterrent System Could be My Problem, I have Heard Storys Over And Over Of The Same Thing happening to Others And that There Was Problems From day One With The Security In These cars. Electrics Are my weakest Link In Auto repair, So I Am Learning As I Go. Could This Theft Deterrent Module Be A Problem ?, The car Has Given Me No Trouble At All In The 4yrs. We Have Owned Her, She Is Not Fast But Very Consistant, Does Not Leak,Smoke, And Does Get OK mileage, A Very Clean Original factory car That Has 122K On Her, That Is All But Some Wiring That I Have Found. I Have Not Really Spent A Lot On Parts So far just Ignition Switch,Blower Motor resistor, Or What Ever That Thing Is And A New Yellow top Optima batt.That Was A Bit Pricey, But needed,And Not Being Able To Find A Neutral Safety Switch, I Removed The Orig. Took It Apart Cleaned All Inside,Added Some Dilectic Grease And re-Assembled It I Think It Is Ok Did Not Look To Detailed Inside Really Kind Of Simple.This "Blower Motor Resistor" Looks Like It Could be Wired Like Your Figure You Posted, Not Quite Sure But The Wires Are Of The Same nature As The Ones headed Down To The Starter, And As I Said They Seem To Be All together At A Point, Just Kinda Split In Two Directions.It Is Just So Frustrating Chasing Wires When You Are Learning As You Go, And Your Just Taking Shots In The Dark, Would Really Like To Know Why This Happened,What caused It, The First Time It Just Seemed to Fix Its Self, Never Did Know why Or how, Still Scratchin my head Over that.And If There Was A Problem With That Theft Deterrent Module It Wouldn't Let The Car Turn Over Would It ?, One Time When I Turned It Over I Heard A Very Slight Tick Noise Coming From back In Between the Batt. Compartment And The Jack Compartment Only Because I had Both Doors Open, But Just Heard It The One Time, Was Not Like The Click You would Hear From A Starter.I Keep thinking That This one day Will be Fixed And Maybe I can Pay It Forward to Some Other Person Who is Struggling To Find A Fix, Plus i Am Learning More Than I Bargained For. Ha!.. Thanks Again !  

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waynep7122
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1114
Joined: 08/09
Posted: 12/06/11 05:27 PM

do you have a digital camera????  can you take some pictures of the starter and the wiring to it..   post them to Photobucket   dot com..   once saved.. hover your cursor over the picture and a tool bar will drop down..

move your cursor to the 4th link down and click on that.. it will copy that link address...   use the paste command and paste that whole link into this text box...

i don't know where the theft deterrent relay is stashed.. under the dash..  on the firewall .. hidden somewhere ???  i will look through the stuff i have and try to find it..
i will have some more info for you wed sometime..  

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Texan1954
I love my Chevy Chevette!
Posts: 5
Joined: 12/11
Posted: 12/06/11 11:01 PM

Yup We have A camera, or i Should Say My Wife Has A Camera,Will See What I can Scrounge Up As Far As Pictures.It is Just So Strange that Everything Is Fine One Minute And Not The Next, The car Really has been A Great Car Even Though It is A Crossfire, If I Had Known Then What I Know Now, I Might Not Have Bought It,I Do Hope i Can Get It Running Again... It Is Starting To become personnel, And I Don't Like Loosing To A Car. Ha!  

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waynep7122
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1114
Joined: 08/09
Posted: 12/07/11 08:55 PM

don't give up...

log in check messages to the left of where you log out at....  

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Texan1954
I love my Chevy Chevette!
Posts: 5
Joined: 12/11
Posted: 12/14/11 08:39 PM

Ok ... Here We Go Again !,Since My Last Post I Have Replaced The Ignition Switch, The Neutral Safety Switch Bought A New Battery And Replaced The Blower Motor Resistor Which I Knew Was Bad As Well As The Battery.The Voltage To The Solenoid From The Ignition Was About 2 Volts By My Meter With The Key Turned On. I Have Also Tried Hot Wiring By Crossing The Terminals At The Starter And It Cranks Like A Champ But Will Not Start With The Key In The On Position. I Would Have Thought For Sure It Would Have Started By Now But Will Not. I Have No Idea Where To Go From Here, Can't Help But Think It Is The Security System, But It Was Running Fine,And Then Nothing, No Warning , Nothing.Could It Be A Starter Interrupt Relay ?, And If So Does Anybody Know Where And What It Looks Like,Or What It Is ? 2 More Weeks Of This And I Might Be Parting Her Out For Scrap,Been On This Now For A SOLID 2 MONTHS, Have Checked , Double Checked And In Some Cases Triple Checked All That I Know Or Was Able To Find Out. I Have Run Out Of Thoughts And Ideas.I Can't Even Get It To A Shop.If ANYBODY Has An Idea,Thought,Or Solution It Would be Most Gratefully Accepted.  

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waynep7122
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1114
Joined: 08/09
Posted: 12/14/11 09:40 PM

i guess you missed my message to call me..

if you jump the S terminal on the starter solenoid..   to battery power it will crank.....

log in.. check messages above.....  

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Texan1954
I love my Chevy Chevette!
Posts: 5
Joined: 12/11
Posted: 12/14/11 11:34 PM

Woops, Sorry, I Saw You Post As I Was Finishing Up, I Will Try Contacting You Early Thurs., It Was Just A Little Late To Get In Touch And I Am New To The Forum Thing. Thank You So Much For Your Help With This, It Has Been Less Than Desirable, And I Am Just Beat To The Socks On This One, Learning Electrical As I Go Doesn't Help Either, I'm Pretty Good With Mechanical Things But Not So Much With Wiring And All The Goings On With The Electrical End Of It.  

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waynep7122
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1114
Joined: 08/09
Posted: 12/15/11 12:49 AM

the anti theft relay is probably an ac delco D1705C

ACDELCO Part # D1705C More Info {#89057688} 4 PIN
Category: Anti-Theft Relay

looks like this...

D1705C

under 20 bucks ...  

where its stashed???? could be under the dash.. could be in the engine compartment..

just curious.. have you tried...   locking the car with the key... completely.. then getting in with the key and seeing if the alarm resets and turns off.. allowing you to start the engine..

i looked through the various repair manuals that i have out..  probably 22 to 25 foot on gorilla racks... i don't have a component locator for that covers the 82 corvette.. or even the 81.. most of the manuals i have out cover fuel injection and carb issues.. as that is my speciality..

i do know other systems quite well.. but i don't know where every part on every car made is..   i await your call in the morning..  

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waynep7122
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1114
Joined: 08/09
Posted: 12/15/11 01:01 AM

do you have an autozone nearby???

Duralast/Relay - Anti-Theft
Part Number: 19875

Xref Brand: AC Delco
Xref Part #: D1705C





http://www.wellsve.com/custom_searches/pdf/relay_web_illustrations/relay_68_illustration.pdf

the inside terminals are set like this...

X--3--2--1--5

5 and 3 are the switched contacts...

1 and 2 are the coil windings..

there does not seem to be a diode protecting the coil .. so you can test the coil either direction...  

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waynep7122
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1114
Joined: 08/09
Posted: 12/15/11 01:12 AM

the wells 430 is the proper connector for this...

Showpartimage

the autozone 430 should be the same. but it looks different online. and that could just be a mix up...  

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waynep7122
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1114
Joined: 08/09
Posted: 12/15/11 01:14 AM

you will have to REPIN the thick wires to a different position..  

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