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Dear old friends

 
dallas85camaro
My first time was in a Chevy
Posts: 167
Joined: 02/10
Posted: 11/12/13 06:51 PM

So a couple years ago I was wearing out these forums day and night getting help with a sbc build. Pman, tuffnuff, and a few others whose names I can't remember anymore were more help than I could even start to explain. Thanks again guys. Here we are again. Things went wrong with my build and I got so irritated, upset, and disappointed that I pushed my 85 camaro back in the garage and haven't touched it. I'll start with what I have, go in to my problems, and hope for more valuable advise.
1974 010 sbc 350 bored .060
Lunati voodoo 60103 cam kit
Chevy 0461x heads-2.02/1.60 valves 64cc chambers-.550 lift springs-Harland sharp roller rockers on 7/16 studs-supposed to have had bowls blended
Stock crank
Stock rods
Flat top pistons-can't remember what brand
Edelbrock rpm performer intake
Shorty headers.
I think that's it.
Now, here's what's going on. I had a neighbor who wouldn't take no for an answer when I told him I didn't need any help building. I got tons of advise on what parts to go with on here and I read vizzards book twice. I had experience building motors. I understood the processes for the most part. I was still kinda fuzzy on how to time a nonstock motor but I'm confident I could have figured that out. With his "help" we got everything together on the motor stand. I went to the store to get some drinks for us and when I came back I could feel heat from the headers. I told this dumb *** not to start the motor until we could for sure run it through the break in cycle. We did not break it in. Started it, ran it long enough to get a video to post to YouTube (dallas85camaro) to show the guys here. After that I finally got it in my car and it never did run right. I could hear some chatter from the rockers so I decided to try to set the valves again. I did research to make sure to do it the right way. I watched videos, read articles, and posts on forums. I found 3 different techniques for setting the valves. Tried one way and didn't hear any chatter but had a horrible miss. I messed with the distributer some, turning it back and forth and could not line it up. Set the timing back to my starting point and tried another process of setting valve lash. I apparently got them too tight because I then had no compression whatsoever. Backed them all off and tried again. More compression but still wouldn't start and run. I'm pretty sure I had the valves right so I'm thinking that I either some how have the timing way out(no clue how that could have happened) or maybe I have flattened out some lobes on my cam. (I doubt I had the motor ever running long enough for that) the first method I tried was setting each cylinder to tdc. Then I found another method of setting the motor to tdc and setting specific valves then rotating the motor 180 and setting the rest of the valves. Finally got fed up and started taking thing apart to check the cam. One of my balancer bolt holes ended up getting stripped out when I was trying to pull it to get the timing chain cover off. Not only that but also some how damaged the threads on my crank bolt. Now I'm stuck there and don't really know what to do. I'm not opposed to starting over while using as many parts as possible. If I am starting over though I'd like to use the same heads and just best match to them. Any and all advise is appreciated. Thanks in advance. Dallas  

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wayne712222
My first time was in a Chevy
Posts: 245
Joined: 10/13
Posted: 11/13/13 12:09 AM

ok...

lets fix the stripped/damaged threads first..

the crank center bolt is 7/16-20..

there are 3 kinds of taps..  

pick up a starting tap.. so you can run it thru the damaged area where the harmonic damper puller mangled the front of the threads. or where you pulled the first few threads out of the crank snout while trying to pull the damper in..

BOTTOMING TAP PLUG TAP TAPER TAP 1

hint... if you have really screwed the pooch on the threads..  you can do the starting tap.. and then at least an intermediate tap on the crank center bolt to take it to 1/2"-20 thread..



the thread size on the 3 bolt harmonic damper pulley mounting bolts are 3/8-24..

same thing... depending on your damper..  since you probably only pulled 3 or 4 threads.. you ill need to use 3 bolts that are longer.. but not really really long.. probably 5/8 or 3/4" in length.. so you don't have a shoulder thats bare..


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

now... a few things at the damper..

Sbc400damper Zps7b6410dd


then.. mark your damper to make it easier to set the valves 1/4 turn at a time..

Untitled16 Zps6bd4b651


~~~~~~~~~~~~

you did not say which kind of ignition you have..  probably some kind of electronic ignition..

this is the pickup coil..  if you set the harmonic damper to the base timing you want.. say 6 BTDC..  you can turn the distributor housing to align the teeth of the pickup coil below with the teeth of the reluctor on the distributor shaft..

this allows you to DEADSTICK time the motor..this is where its going to fire at.. so you can take the timing out of the issues..  do this and you can lock down the distributor..

Untitled3 Zpsb7fb0c42

cracks in the magnet will really screw with the proper spark generation ..


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


lets look at the lifter / rocker adjustment

Hydrauliclifterinterals Zps81c88d7a

Hydrauliclifter Zpsa2044c67

verify you are are #1 TDC compression stroke..  the #6 exhaust valve should just be closing and the #6 intake starting to open.  there should be NO movement of the exhaust or intake valve within 1/2 a turn of the crank when the engine is on #1 TDC compression..

back off the rocker until you can just feel the push rod play.  slowly tighten it until the rattle is gone..  you want ZERO... you don't want to depress the lifter plunger..  go to the next valve. probably the intake on the #1..as the exhaust is the first valve..

turn the crank 1/4 turn.. til the next numbers line up..

loosen the #8 intake and exhaust valve and then snug them until you reach ZERO without depressing the plunger away from the snap ring.. and you will have to be the judge as you are the ones doing this.

turn it another quarter turn.. do the first four on the first turn of the crank.. and the second four on the second turn of the crank...



once you get them all adjusted to ZERO...  you can.. give them all 1/4 turn down..

remember.. each turn of the crank is only 4 cylinder..

1843
6572
1843
6572




you should be ready to start the engine now..

your timing should be set..

your valves should be set...

want to talk about the carb settings???  

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wayne712222
My first time was in a Chevy
Posts: 245
Joined: 10/13
Posted: 11/13/13 12:18 AM

lastly.. some lifters do have precision leak down holes. i don't know which lifters they included in the kit.. when the are the performance lifters..  they will get slightly loose at idle.. to improve idle vacuum..  but will pump back up when you bring the rpms and the oil pressure up...

i am hoping that in all the tricks of the week that you purchased... you did not end up with oil galley restrictors..

and that your cam bearings .. at least the rear one was installed properly.. that can screw up the oil flow to the lifter galleys..  

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dallas85camaro
My first time was in a Chevy
Posts: 167
Joined: 02/10
Posted: 11/13/13 05:22 AM

Wow. Thanks for all the great info. Carb settings, haha. I'll talk to you about that when I get there. That's one area I really know nothing about. The puller did mangle the threads but I can't get my head in there to see how bad. I'll take a blind video with my phone so I can see it. It has a stock hei distributer.  Cam bearing were installed at the machine shop. I hope they did it right. No one is immune to mistakes tho.  

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dallas85camaro
My first time was in a Chevy
Posts: 167
Joined: 02/10
Posted: 11/14/13 12:13 PM

Alright. I have the threads fixed and bolts goin smoothly. I should have my valves set correctly. I'm about to start in on the timing now.  

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dallas85camaro
My first time was in a Chevy
Posts: 167
Joined: 02/10
Posted: 11/14/13 12:43 PM

Got the cap off and the rotor button is pointing straight ahead. I'm not sure how it got to that point or how to fix it. Does that mean I'm 180 out?  

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wayne712222
My first time was in a Chevy
Posts: 245
Joined: 10/13
Posted: 11/14/13 06:18 PM

rotor can point anywhere.. as long as its at the #1 spark plug wire or the #6 spark plug wire when the damper is at TDC...  and where are your timing marks?????


2  o clock or 12 o clock????

Sbc400damper Zps7b6410dd

Sbcslightlywrongdistributorinstall Zpsb1c77236

Untitled9 Zps421c2537


Sbcdamper2oclockattdc Zps83e8145f

this is a ford image.. but it gives you the idea

Reluctorfiring Zps72e6362c

now... just sit on the beach for a few minutes and relax..

Legoe Bay Zps42478ffe

two turns of the crank to 1 turn of the cam and distributor.

Sbccamtiming

Timingmarks

both of these dampers are aligned with the crank key..

Chevybalancermarks


you need to identify and make sure that you have the timing at 6 or 8 before.. and that the timing pointer and damper actually indicate the TDC..

then you can turn the housing to align the pickup coil and the reluctor..  

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dallas85camaro
My first time was in a Chevy
Posts: 167
Joined: 02/10
Posted: 11/14/13 08:26 PM

Ok if I'm understanding correctly, your asking about the timing pointer being in the 2 or 12 position. It would be in the 2. It's off to the top right of the damper. Not directly on top Like in the pic of the ford motor and the last pic.  Not the pic of timing mark calculation. Apparently my assumption that the rotor was supposed to point in the general direction of #1 cylinder is incorrect.  When I built  the motor I put the cam n with the timing mark at 12. My timing pointer has marks for 12 before to 4 after tdc, I believe.  If that doesn't answer your question about my timing marks the only other thing I can think of would be the tdc mark on the damper. It's aligned with the tdc on the pointer. Are you saying that I need to move that back to 6 or 8 before and then make sure that the rotor is pointing at #1 plug wire on the cap? Please excuse my ignorance here. I usually pick up on things a lot faster than this but for some odd reason I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this.  

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dallas85camaro
My first time was in a Chevy
Posts: 167
Joined: 02/10
Posted: 11/14/13 08:44 PM

Not sure what happened. I had what I believe to be a reply answering all concerns but for some reason it didn't go through. Here we go again.  When I built the motor the timing mark on the cam gear was at 12.  My timing pointer is at the 2 position. Like in the pic of the ford motor and the last pic. I apparently either was misinformed or misunderstood in thinking that the rotor was supposed to point in the general direction of the 1 cylinder. I'm not sure which timing marks you're asking about in the first question. If the marks on the cam and crank are what you're talking about then the cam I remember for sure was at 12 and I believe the crank was too. Like I said that was a couple years ago. But I went by the book with every step. If I'm understanding you correctly , I need to make sure I'm at 6 or 8 before tdc and then rotate the distributor to make the 1 wire on the cap align with the rotor? I don't understand why this is confusing me so badly. I usually catch on to things very quickly. Thanks for everything and excuse my ignorance.  

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dallas85camaro
My first time was in a Chevy
Posts: 167
Joined: 02/10
Posted: 11/14/13 08:48 PM

Lol. Gotta love technology.  

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skyeking
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 2738
Joined: 08/09
Posted: 11/15/13 02:09 AM

Hi there,
 I had very similar experiences with my motor after not looking at it for 6
 hard years.  Walk away from it for 2 days and watch some videos of your choice.
   Let your subconcious do some work and take notes of "flash" ideas.
 You are standing too close to the Flame after the time lapse..
  It will come back with a bang...You will succeed because you have the support
 of an old gent who should be in another "Back to the Future" film.
 Hi Wayne....Wise and Ancient Wun!!!  Noel in Battle Ground Sydney...  
skyeking

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dallas85camaro
My first time was in a Chevy
Posts: 167
Joined: 02/10
Posted: 11/15/13 06:10 AM

Good to see you skyeking. You're one of the guys I was talking about in my op along with idrivejunk, 69nova355, and gettnlarge. After I posted I found my old threads. Definitely would have posted there if I would have know how to find them. This Wayne guy does seems extremely knowledgable. He's been a ton of help so far. Everything I've tried has worked pretty well. Was able to fly thru setting the valves. I can tell right away that he's definitely been doing this for a long time. I hope I'm understanding him correctly about the timing. If I am I should be able to try to start the car today.  

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wayne712222
My first time was in a Chevy
Posts: 245
Joined: 10/13
Posted: 11/15/13 07:55 AM

sorry... fingers don't speak as well as i do in person .. i am planning a video on this.. if i can get a motor on a stand thats ready to start..


91 Jbody 20 Distributor Zpsc3e4178d

see the inner star on the shaft.. thats the reluctor..

see the outer ring thats on the pick up coil...


if you turn the engine in normal direction of rotation..  and you stop at the base timing you want..  say.. 8 before or 4 before..  then turn the housing with the pick up coil until it lines up with reluctor.. you can  if the rotor now lines up with the #1 or #6 wire... lock the distributor bolt down and start the engine..



the coil is going to fire when the pointy things are lined up perfectly..

if you set the crank to base timing.. and line up the pointy things..

if the rotor and wires are aligned.. it will fire up..




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

read this section below with a different part of your mind...
as this is for later...

when you need to remove the distributor on something. if you figure out where #1 is.. bring the crank around until the rotor is pointing toward that wire position in the cap.. you can slowly move the crank until the pole pieces line up .. note the damper marks..  and you now know how to get the distributor back in time .. where it was..

i preset motors all the time.. yank the distributor out.. work on it on the bench.. stuff it back in..  usually crank the engine 2 turns as i am watching the rotor and waiting for the gear to drop onto the oil pump shaft.. reset the damper to the proper mark.. turn the housing and lock it down.. toss the rotor and cap on.. reach thru the window and turn the key and it will almost always start and be within a few degress..  makes me look smart..  amazes people..

its just the fingers and typing part of the brain.. are not connected well to the speaking part of the brain..  once i get the video.. and it will only be a minute or minute and a half long..  everybody will understand..

somebody ask me if i like jig saw puzzles.. i said.. nope.. i like repairing cars.. as when you are done assembling all the parts.. you can go somewhere.. other than back into a box in a thousand parts..  

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dallas85camaro
My first time was in a Chevy
Posts: 167
Joined: 02/10
Posted: 11/15/13 09:59 AM

It's all good man. You're doin fine. I'm not a guy who learns well by reading anyway. One last question. How do I find out where I want it timed at? 4,6,8 before? I'm goin to look up my cam specs and see if it gives me any insight. It seems like I remember something on the cam card. Thanks again  

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dallas85camaro
My first time was in a Chevy
Posts: 167
Joined: 02/10
Posted: 11/15/13 10:01 AM

Here's the cam card. If I remember the way this works, this cam has 4*btdc built in.
[url=http://www.lunatipower.com/CamSpecCard.aspx?partNumber=60103  

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