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With all the Info in........ Its gonna be a Stick

 
swaluda
V-6 Camaros rule!
Posts: 72
Joined: 11/12
Posted: 01/31/13 04:31 PM

You Know, I did a heck of a lot of research on Autommatic vs. Standard Trans for a new Build. Seems to me that with an Automatic Trans there are too many variables to consider. If you choose the wrong one, or even dont consider your cam in the equasion you screwed up. Dont consider tire size you screwed up, Dont consider rear gears, you screwed up. OK, Now you got lock out converters, they better be the right choice, Stall converters, better be right also . If not your overheating your Trans ( Expensive ) Not to mention your wasting your potential power. never gonna get there with a bad choice. I fiqure even if you have the right choice your still gonna lose at least 10 percent of your power because your stall is never gonna be perfectly set up. You could lose up to 25 percent of your power with a minor screw up. Dont seem worth the agravation to me. Therefore I'm just gonna ram a stick up it's ass and go. If you guys think i'm off base here, chime in and tell me why, I'm a good listener. Thanks, Stan in NE Pa. Mad  

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68scott385
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1994
Joined: 10/09
Posted: 01/31/13 04:43 PM

Either way you still have to consider rear gears and tire size to get good acceleration, gas milage, or a compromise between the two  
68scott385 68scott385 68scott385

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xFourLeaf
V-6 Camaros rule!
Posts: 62
Joined: 01/13
Posted: 01/31/13 04:46 PM

I think it's a great decision. Building a car with an automatic trans is just like having another car, it would get old fast. I think you will get a load more enjoyment out of your car if it was a stick. Isn't that why we race and build cars anyway? For the enjoyment we get out of them.

Good luck and keep us posted!  
xFourLeafxFourLeaf

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Dave632
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 2253
Joined: 07/08
Posted: 01/31/13 06:43 PM

If you are planning to run this car on the street and just for fun by all means a stick is a good choice. With an auto and a high stall converter you can have as much as a 30% drivetrain loss. With a stick it can be as low as 18%. It is also more fun to yank gears.
At the track however, even with the power loss, most run automatics or planetary transmissions now. There is so much power available that the parasitic losses can be overcome with pure guts. Mind you I am talking about all out race cars not a street car. The big dollar guys usually run lenco type transmissions or high dollar powerglide trans. to handle 1500-2500 hp.  
[[SUPPORT AMERICAN CARS, STOMP A RICE CAR TODAY.]]

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76Skylark
Big Block power for the win
Posts: 868
Joined: 12/11
Posted: 02/01/13 04:59 AM

STAN, holy Crap I almost feel WE have done you An INJUSTICE.  FRIEND Please let me say I am sorry. First there is nothing Like Having Gears to shift through and YES things like rear Gear and tire Size will Always come into play in your Selection.think about it like this lets take the way back Machine 40yrs. If you bought a new Chevelle you could have had 4 engine options-----I6-307-350-454.  and you could have had 4 tranny options 3 speed manual,4 speed manual a350 auto. and a 400 auto but only 2 tire sizes 14" and 15" .In those days there weren't the Conestoga wagon wheels ( we talked about that) we talked about rear gear ratios  and we talked about engine and performance Options. but what you told us you wanted Really only left a couple decisions, you want a driver not a racer. so lets break this down some. and I will throw in a couple Newer Options for you that are Modern. 1st power, BIG Or Small block, as you are building a driver a STOCK 350 would be PLENTY and if width between the inner fenders is a problem then a Straight 6 would be an option.If you can afford 12 miles to a gallon and there is room a big block has that FAIRGROUND appeal but at a price that has as much to do with Initial cost as Mileage. the trans is another place to look, if you want to shift gears in traffic then a 3speed (cheep)or 4 speed and that gives you another gear for Quicker acceleration and less strain on the engine,and here also is where the TH350and 400 auto comes in as the rear gear for these 4 trans will remain constant /anywhere from a 2:93-3:42 ratio the higher number providing quicker acceleration but worse gas mileage.and at 70 mph any aforementioned combos are great.NOW other options for trannys Fall into Overdrives, 5 and even 6 speed trans for shifter guys are out there, and 4th gear and now more (very expensive auto's are available. the 700r4 and 200r4 are common and less expensive than a good 4 speed nowadays and because of the OD your Final drive(rear gear can be Lower)(number higher) to provide a faster Start but in the end your Overall drive raito can be about the same as the  2:93 3:42.To ME and for the Street a 342 rear drive and a 200r4 is perfect as the first gear ratio is not as steep as the 700r4 and if you aren't towing or don't have a heavy car/truck that's not necessary. now tires, we know you are most likely going to run a 15 so if you use a 225-235-60 x15 tire on back that is about the same as a 225-78x14 the second number being Height of a percentage of width, and you can even run a 17' rim as long as the tire is a very low second number like a 50 or 40  but they start looking Stupid at that point to me.The taller tire with the taller gear is where the engine is put into a strain and will begin to cost fuel mileage.FORGET about High Stall Torque converters 1800-2000 rpm Stall is ALL you want for a daily driver or Cross country Car. Don't let this be confusing. there are a thousand Combos, If you want it to cruze like a modern Car than Do NO more than a Modern Car has but in a really Kool Body. Please Ask if you want more of a reality Check! really!  

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redneckjoe69
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 2337
Joined: 03/10
Posted: 02/01/13 07:24 AM

if i was doing what your doing Stan, id look for a donor vehichle that had all the parts i wanted and could use.   might end up cheaper in the long run and youll know all your parts will bolt up and work.     just an idea.  

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swaluda
V-6 Camaros rule!
Posts: 72
Joined: 11/12
Posted: 02/01/13 11:09 AM

Thanks Sky, You and Joe, Bob, Junk and a few others always have good input for my posts. Street, Highway, Moonshine runner is what i'm lookin for. When i hit the pedal i want to haul a.. Accelerate quick, build 60 or 70 mph and settle down to cruise. Every phase of the driveline build is going to be a bear. I cant get a donor car for what i have. ( 1950 Plymouth Coupe )  They're all flat sixes. So, i need to prefab or hunt down all the motor mounts, trans mounts, find a rear axle with the proper width and good rear gear choice for my build. Either a 350 or small block 400. Bored no more than 0.030 over. Mix and match is OK. (400 crank in a 350 ) Roller cam and Rockers, probably and older 010 block. Gotta stay well away from smog era and newer computerized mills. In my State of Pennsylvania, and with the age of my car, i can get away with not having to go thru emissions testing. Roller Rockers and Cam, In my day, 60's, we refered them as quarter or half race cams, and of course the full race Cam. Quarter race seems acceptable. I guess these days it's called a RV Cam. Low End Torker. And Hell, Thats why they make Shorty Headers, to acomodate the Cam for Low tork performance, and Hell, if a guy could put a H pipe exhaust in line and close to the motor, He'd be the Man. I even thought of old style laker pipes. Thoughts only cost money when u apply them. A good set of 2.02 Heads combined with the other components should net about 400 Horse. Now this is where the Trans and Rear Gears, Tire size Etc, come in. Tires at 26 are good, Rear in the mid 300's is good.. And now the Trans choice to complete the package. You know, the Old 50 Plymouth had a columb shifted 3 speed in it. I always thought of keeping the columb shifter and using it with an Auto Trans, ( prefab the linkages ) It would be a better choice for me to keep the Body as original as i can. If for any reason at all would be to respect the Mopar aspect. If i hadnt already bastardized it by Bow tieing it. If i did, well, so be it, Its my car. I have no plans to racetrack it, Like i say though, seems to be a easier, less headache, less chance of power loss with say a 4 speed or a T5. Therefore looks like the columb shifter wont cut it either. The top of the motor will be a double plane intake with a 750 double pumper I'm still open for any input, I like to listen, Seems in the long run it always saves me money enough to buy the kids more toys, and sometimes Daddy,,, LOL  Stan Mad  

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76Skylark
Big Block power for the win
Posts: 868
Joined: 12/11
Posted: 02/02/13 06:26 AM

believe it or not the column shifter can be used to Shift a manual like a muncie or Saginaw by Just about bolting it on.( yea there would be some figuring and changing minor parts) auto would be easier still  

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idrivejunk
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 5119
Joined: 12/09
Posted: 02/02/13 09:44 AM

I swear I've been following along, but my reading retention sucks, lol. Stick rules. Seriously, I think whats happenin here is a good process. I'm like Joe, and believe that the majority of parts you need could be found at the best value by buying a car or project off a needy seller. We all know that complete but ugly cars bring less money than the sum of their parts is worth. In other words, the guy parting out a car may want $600 for the whole thing, but $400 for the engine and $200 for the trans. If you have a trailer and can haul, do some broke rodder a favor and haul off his project piles for pennies. Then pick out what you want to use or sell, and scrap the rest with no mercy or hesitation.

If you use somebody else's SBC build in it and don't like the setup, you can always change the that later. I'd get me a running engine mounted and stick a Muncie or Saginaw four speed behind it with a Hurst Comp Plus on the floor. Zero need to try and be different here, simple is the word. Use a custom driveshaft to link it to whatever rearend arrangement you come up with. If you want to be fancy, set up a salvage Vette IRS out back. Y'know theres a lot of wrecked new Camaros out there, and they use a bolt-in subframe for the IRS. Now why the hell did I start talking about IRS? Sorry, man I work in a high-end hot rod shop, forgive me. We have a '72 pickup at the shop with a '10 camaro IRS in it, can't be that hard.  

Once people see its been bowtied, they kinda lump it in with the rest like its a copout. But we all know its the smart thing to do when the goal is just to roll in the old style rig. So I say keep the running gear basic and cheap, but make your statement by having it all LOOK "together" and stunning under the hood. Theres a lot you can do with not much more than giving it some thought, but you gotta pick a "look" or time period and use it everywhere on the car. I think you know what you need to do, and are at a point where its time to start hunting and picking, and getting down and dirty with the tape measure, hoist, and welder. Once theres a SBC mounted, you'll get a glimpse of the light at the end of the tunnel and start running!  
idrivejunk

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redneckjoe69
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 2337
Joined: 03/10
Posted: 02/03/13 02:33 AM

i agree, time to pull out a tape measure & start taking notes.   find out whats gonna come close to fitting.   then look for a deal on a good running parts car.   your gonna have to do some cutting, fabricating & welding most likely, anyway.   so put in what you want.   i thought you mentioned 26 inch tires, v-8 power, manual tranny, posi rear, etc?    it might be cheap to find a 3rd or 4th gen f-body with those options?    it would be good to have a whole car,...radiater, computer, brakes, pedals, gas tank?, interior?, wiring harness, rims/tires?, suspension?, etc?      

  running back and forth to the junkyard, and hunting down parts individualy can nickel & dime you death, IMO.  

   Matts idea with the vette would be awesome. Cool  

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