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305 first build questions

 
hotrodkennyb
I love my Chevy Chevette!
Posts: 22
Joined: 12/12
Posted: 12/29/12 12:36 PM

hello all i have decided to take on my first engin build i have wanted to do this for a long time now but being in the army and having 5 kids has made it pretty difficult as far as time and money but with a recent injury and back surgery i will not be allowed to re enlist and also got me placed with a unit that has opened up alot of free time for me untill my contract expires so i decided to have a go at this project i got my hands on a sbc 305 with everything except the alternator and the carb me and my son have torn it all appart and got it layed out and the block on a motor stand i think the motor came out of a 1984 or 1985 chevy two wheel drive truck that was in a pick a part yard everything looks good in the block i dont see any rust or scratches in the cylinder walls or in the pistons or anywhere on the block or crank or cam the intake manafold has some rust in it where the carb bolts to it now i need to clean it all up as it has alot of grease and grime on it any ideas on the best way to do this alos what would be the best way to build this i have a very very limited budget so any tips on where to look for lower priced parts im not looking to build a big monster of a motor i meen its a 305 cant go to big there but i would like it to sound nice and burn a new set of tires if someone wanted it to we will be putting the motor into a 1994 chevy c1500 wt we also want to try and keep away from any computerised stuff my son dont know it but i will be giving it to him to as a gift to show him how proud of him i am he signed his enlistment papers to join the army and ships off to basic training in the begining of july so we dont have much time so any cleaning product tips, parts tips and setup ideas would be greatly apreceated  

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BuzzLOL
I have an SS396 tatoo
Posts: 380
Joined: 12/10
Posted: 12/30/12 09:21 PM

.. Not sure what you have in mind for a budget ($200? $500 $1,000?, or more?)or how much you are considering changing. (clean up, go through, paint? cam and heads? complete performance rebuild?)

.. Engine degreasers are available in most stores. Scrape off thick gunk first.

.. Did the truck come with an engine? I assume it was another 305 or smaller, like a V6?

.. Headers and true dual exhaust ( 2 1/2" or 3" pipes) gives one of the best Bang-for-the-Buck power increases...

.. I assume this will be your son's daily driver for the next few years, so fuel economy will be important, so no bigger than like a Summit 214/224 K1103 cam/lifters (~$90) and some Howard's 'Z28' level valve springs (~$30)... Pick up used 4bbl. carb. and intake if it doesn't have one. Most mid to late 1980's 305's came with 4bbl intake, often aluminum. 327, 350, or 400 intakes also OK. Find a 1970's 305 or 307 Q-Jet 4bbl. carb. or swap meet Holley 600-650. Maybe your car guy friends have one lying around. I have several. Maybe some flat top pistons if that is in the budget. Check on eBay for those. Try to get ones with stock compression height, many rebuilder ones are shorter and ruin compression ratio and quench and MPG and power. Read up on quench and how to get it right. That will give power up to about 6,000 RPMs or so and 325HP... Maybe some used 305 Vortech iron heads (requires the special Vortec intake manifold) or '86 - '91 'Vette/ZZx crate engine -113 aluminum heads (Gen. 1 intake) if in the budget... that can bump up to about 375HP...

.. Max torque and number of cubic inches goes hand in hand, that is, a 305 tends to only have about 275 - 350 lb.-ft. of max torque depending on compression ratio and how carefully quench is paid attention to and cam size... so not a lot of tire burning power there, depending on gear ratio...

.. I was in the Army for 19 months and 27 days... once I served my tour in Vietnam, they saw no reason to keep paying me and let me out early as an E5 Sgt... went back to my job at the phone company...

.. Let us know if we can fine tune this discussion further...  

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skyeking
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 2738
Joined: 08/09
Posted: 12/30/12 09:35 PM

Hi there.
 I Had a well worked 305 and used a 214/224 cam flat tappet..
 At best it will only give about .87 hp per Cu inch.
 I settled for a 222/222 with .447/.447" on 4* advance with
 600 DP holley and 69 jets. 58cc heads with 1.87 in valves.
 2'valves failo to get swirl..Timing 10/36 is best with 222 cam.
  You can fiddle as long as the money holds out.
  All Dynos seem to be different and mine only showed 255
 theoretical ponies at 4870rpm but held to 5400  and fell in a heap.
  If experimenting was NOT so costly it would be fun...Skyeking.  
skyeking

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BuzzLOL
I have an SS396 tatoo
Posts: 380
Joined: 12/10
Posted: 12/30/12 10:34 PM

.. This is why I mentioned understanding building an engine with good compression ratio and good quench. (the factory didn't!) A 214/224 duration cam should give more power than that. And a 222/222 cam doesn't want to pull hard till above 3500 RPMs in a 305. Not a good daily driver truck situation. (BTW, stock 305 cams are 184/196 or 196/202 (L69 SS 305 202/206) (TPI EFI 305 roller cams up to 207/209) )

.. Here's a dyno run on a 214/224 cam, scroll down to build Combo #83:

http://www.ryanscarpage.50megs.com/combos11.html

(ignore his re-calculations of lift with 1.6 rocker arms, that was already in the lift numbers. this guy has this site to attract people so he can pimp religion addiction off to them, he doesn't really know anything about cars/engines, but his compilation of magazine engine builds is a handy reference resource, anyways)

.. BTW, if your 305 is a roller lifter cam ready block (1986 & up), then a used/takeout roller lifter cam from a TPI, LT1, LT4, or ZZ2-ZZ4 305 or 350 (202/207 - 208/221 - 210/212 duration range) would be an outstanding performer, as well... those are floating around all over... also, the little 196/206 duration roller cam from RamJet 350 or HT383 crate engines, because of its good valve lift, performs vastly better than it's duration would indicate... many of them get taken out and replaced as well...  

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76Skylark
Big Block power for the win
Posts: 868
Joined: 12/11
Posted: 01/01/13 07:50 AM

HR Kenny, Mineral spirits is a great cleaner and less expensive than most De greasers and it isn't a Soap,lives well in a parts washer also.Get a 5 Gallon Bucketful,Home Depot sells a Hard black Plastic concrete mixing container that is big enough to soak parts overnight and will hold a block also. get a brush set for oil passage ways./Bottle brush/ rifle bore length pipe cleaner.Gas is even better but Epa and Fire Hazard,comprenda! car craft Mag did an article on a rebuild for Cheap,652 bucks,May 2010 find it and read it,it is online car craft.com  

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hotrodkennyb
I love my Chevy Chevette!
Posts: 22
Joined: 12/12
Posted: 01/01/13 01:40 PM

thanks for the reply BUZZLOL sorry took so long for me to respond lots of stuff going on here for the hollidays but its finaly all over lol to answer your questions the money i have to spend on this is going to be arround $500 maby more i just dont have it all at once i only get payed 2 times a month the plan is to clean it up paint it and try to reuse most of the parts if possible to try and save money but if i could get better performance by replcing some parts then that is an option i just wish i knew more about this stuff but im learning as much as i can as i go as far as a daily driver yes and no he has a jeep grand cheroke he has for a daily driver also so fuel economy is not a big issue the intake is a 4bbl intake im pretty sure it has 4 holes in the top where the carb should go on the intake we pulled off a 350 motor i googled the numbers that were stamped on the top of it and it said that it could go on a 305 or a 350 and it bolted rigt on it with no issues before we tore the engine down the only car friend i have just got deployed a few weeks back so were pretty much on our own here with this  you mentioned flat top pistons the ones tht were in the motor may be flat top one the have a flat top on them im not sure if thats what the term means i think this motor was worked over at one time becaus it was taken apart and painted so they may not be the ones that came in it stock you mentioned you had several carbs would you be willing to sell one of them if so how much i can give you my cell number if you would like so we could talk as far as the quench you menchend i will be reading up on what it is and how i can use this to my advantage the truck we will be putting it into is a 1994 chevy c1500 wt it is compleatly stock it has a automatic trans i think it is a 4l60e and as far as the rear end i dont know what it has im pretty sure its stock tho the motor in it now is the stock 3.4l vortec V6 another question i had was will this transmision work with this new engine also how do i tell wht pistons and cam and crank i have  

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skyeking
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 2738
Joined: 08/09
Posted: 01/01/13 04:28 PM

Hi there,
I have had a ZZ4 350 with the 208 cam which is a great torqie cam for
a 350cu incher and would be the Cat's pyjamas for a well built 305
without killing off the fuel economy with a 465 Holley.
 Most of the torque will be in by 3000 certain....Good luck..  
skyeking

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76Skylark
Big Block power for the win
Posts: 868
Joined: 12/11
Posted: 01/01/13 04:44 PM

If the piston is clean enough that there isn't any carbon on it LOOK CLOSELY and see if a number is stamped on the top surface (.030) is most often used for the first over bore. yes a flat top is just that. the Eye brows that May be there are recesses in the piston either on one half or sometimes both sides of the top.also all smallblock chevy engines have the same over all deminsions,but the combo's sometimes don't cross over, you don't live too far from me I am on the N.side of Atl. about 50 miles, just above Canton and just south of Ellijay, the only problems I see with the tranny is that it is an E (electric) operated unit but there is more than one way to Skin a Cat. Wayne7122 is the Guy that gets in depth with the newer Stuff so hopefully he see's this and jumps in. can you post some pics of what you have.  

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hotrodkennyb
I love my Chevy Chevette!
Posts: 22
Joined: 12/12
Posted: 01/01/13 05:14 PM

thanks for the info 76skylark they have alot of what i think is carbon on the top of them i will be trying to clean them up tomorrow after work we are still on half days so i will be off around 11 i will take some pics and try to figure out how to post them tomorrow  

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BuzzLOL
I have an SS396 tatoo
Posts: 380
Joined: 12/10
Posted: 01/01/13 09:22 PM

.. To post pictures, upload them to a public hosting site, then drag the picture URL into the posting box here and post it, then hit edit and buttons will pop up to make the URL into a link or a picture, then save it... don't know why it has to be two steps like that...

Images?Q=Tbn:And9gcr3 Jv2z5up Sdwweewkjlp3h07gxkzestncvztpoqanx54c2dh

.. The dish piston often also has 2 or 4 valve reliefs carved into the dish for valve clearance... the dish for a 305 is also usually shallower than the one pictured. The flat top piston shown is a '2-eyebrow flat top'... they may come 4 pistons for one side of the V8 engine and 4 reversed appearance for other side of engine... they also usually come universal 4-eyebrow in stock GM engines so they can go on either side...... and 1-eyebrow for some angled valve engines...

.. We're used to waiting a week to month or more for someone getting around to reply, everybody is busy... but each day or three is better...

.. X 2... Yes, the electronic transmissions have all their functions and shifting controlled by the computer... some kind of after market electronic tranny controller box would have to be used... or an earlier non-e tranny... 700-R4 is same tranny without the electronic control (except torque converter lockup, which can be done in several cheap ways)... 200-4R could also be used, but tranny/driveshaft lengths are different, introducing new problems...

.. If it's still warm enough where you live for car shows, you could hobnob around with some of the guys there who do their own build work, especially the rat rod guys, who usually have lots of spare parts lying around... I'm up in Toledo, Ohio and it's snow covered here now...  

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hotrodkennyb
I love my Chevy Chevette!
Posts: 22
Joined: 12/12
Posted: 01/02/13 07:25 PM

thanks for the trany info i dident get to do much cleaning today had to do  few things today after i got off but on the plus side i was able to check out a junk yard i dident know about before and was able to pick up a carb for $25 i cleaned it up a bit and i took a pic of it i was able to clean up one of the pistons a bit and took a pic of it as well i think they are flat top but not sure they dont look like the pic above i hope these pics show up what outher pics was you wanting to see
pics here
dident work but here is the link to photobucket with them  

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68scott385
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1994
Joined: 10/09
Posted: 01/02/13 09:13 PM

most of HRKB's pictures...just tryin' to help

92595953 E88E 4621 BD2B 61F365765362 19682 0000060889692AB5

265BE7B8 46D6 4772 8DF4 42B818B2D88F 19682 000006087CCDD69A

C383B9E6 F016 4463 90CD 0E4554E0D564 19682 00000608705CA37C

56623E55 8203 469D AF65 A8847BDA0EFF 19682 0000060859CF18D6

CD23413F 55E0 4779 9863 CE988D46A3E7 19682 000006084C683D08

FYI, copy & paste the "image code" into the reply box...play with it, you'll get the hang of it  
68scott385 68scott385 68scott385

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68scott385
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1994
Joined: 10/09
Posted: 01/02/13 09:26 PM

Decoding the carb number:

1705 = 1976-1979 model years
9 = last number of application year...1979
2 = typically, according to my source, 1 or 2 denotes if the original application is federal while 4 & 5 denote California applications
1 = Chevy application, also indicated by side inlet fuel bowl, others used front inlet, according to my source
6 = my source says that even numbers are "many times" automatic trans applications while odd numbers are manual trans applications...I have two Qjets  of known origin that DO NOT follow that rule, so I don't fully trust it.

2518 = Julian date...produced on the 251st day of 1978

You'll need the 17059216 number to get a rebuild kit.

I found this at O'Reilly under 1979 Corvette base motor 350 "L" vin.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BWD0/10865/02447.oap?year=1979&make=Chevrolet&model=Corvette&vi=1041130&ck=Search_carburetor+kit_1041130_1591&ck=Search_carburetor+kit_1035212_1591&keyword=carburetor+kit&narrow=17059216  
68scott385 68scott385 68scott385

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redneckjoe69
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 2337
Joined: 03/10
Posted: 01/02/13 09:49 PM

idk if its the pic, but that piston looks tiny.   are you sure its a 305?   can you measure the piston or the bore?

  i dont think a v-6 tranny will bolt up to a v-8, but i could be wrong.  

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68scott385
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1994
Joined: 10/09
Posted: 01/02/13 10:17 PM

The 90* V6s had the same bell-housing pattern as the V8s. When using a trans from a V6 with a V8 you have to be careful with how hard you treat the trans as V6 trannys are not as strong as V8 trannys. At least the early versions of the 700r4/4L60 follow that rule.  
68scott385 68scott385 68scott385

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