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406 CAM CHOICE

 
JTH55
V-6 Camaros rule!
Posts: 32
Joined: 11/12
Posted: 11/28/12 06:57 PM

NEW TO THE THREAD LOOKING FOR ADVICE ON CAM SELECTION.I BASICALLY  HAVE A CLONE OF THE IMPERSONATOR 406.STOCK CRANK ,5.7 H-BEAM RODS, 64CC VORTEC HEADS AND KEITH BLACK DISHED PISTONS MAKING IT 9.5 FOR COMPRESSION .JUST SCORED A SET OF DART IRON EAGLE 215 HEADS AND VICTOR JR.INTAKE WITH A 800 CFM AVS CARB.LOOKING FOR A HYD.ROLLER CAM GRIND THAT WILL GET ME MAX PERFORMANCE BUT STILL ABLE TO DRIVE TO LOCAL CAR SHOWS AND SOME WEEKEND FUN AT THE DRAGSTRIP .HERES A LITTLE ABOUT THE CAR .1955 ALL STEEL CHEVY WITH A TUBO 400 .411 POSI REAREND
26"TALL REAR TIRES.THIS IS NOT A DAILY DRIVER JUST NEED ENOUGH VACUM FOR POWER BRAKES.HOPE THIS IS ENOUGH INFO.FOR A START THANX FOR ANY ADVICE.  

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JTH55
V-6 Camaros rule!
Posts: 32
Joined: 11/12
Posted: 11/28/12 07:48 PM

FORGOT TO MENTION THE CONVERTER IS A TCI 1800-2000 STALL AND HEADS ARE 64CC AS WERE THE VORTECS  

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pepsi1
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1718
Joined: 09/11
Posted: 11/29/12 12:40 PM

You did forget a few things.

I know that every one likes the Vortec heads. But to run a cam with more then .500 lift they need to be modified. For Valve springs, valve guildes need to be modified, and they should be ported atleast on the intake side.

Do you need a retro fit kit for your cam?

Here are 2 cams I pulled up from CompCam with the info you gave.

P/N 12-430-8 Grind #280HR
P/N 12-420-8 Grind #270HR

Bob  

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JTH55
V-6 Camaros rule!
Posts: 32
Joined: 11/12
Posted: 11/29/12 04:54 PM

the dart heads did not come with any springs so a match with any cam selection anyone comes up with would help.anyone?  

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pepsi1
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1718
Joined: 09/11
Posted: 11/29/12 06:54 PM

I left 2 Cam suggestions from CompCams. I thought would be a good start.
Please understand a couple things. First I am here to give you suggestions as best as my 58 years can do. Secondandly I am not here to debate you.
  I am an old gear head that loves our hobby. I will help you the best I can. If you don't agree with some of the  suggestions thats fine.
  You did answer the rear question, with a 26" tall tire, but do you need a retro fit kit.
  You have to understand there aren't many people that will will recommend acam let alone a High Dollar Hydraulic Roller Cam. Okay with that said. You can purchase (3) Flat tappet cam and lifter kits for the cost of (1) Hydraulic Roller
Cam. So when you decide on that Cam you need it has to be correct. I True wrote short story on our CHP Forum. If you read it you'll see why we have to be correct in cam selection. Its in this post somewhere. Perk1964Impala. Perk 1964 has nothing to do with the story OKAY!
Thanks
Bob  

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pepsi1
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1718
Joined: 09/11
Posted: 11/29/12 08:12 PM

JTH55
  Have the Dart heads checked for cracks, and pressure checked. The 215cc Dart heads were angle and straight plug heads.
Which do you have?
  All angle plug heads will not fit all headers. Just check with the header manufacturer.
  They also came with (2) different valve spring OD pockets. 1.437" and 1.550".
It depends on what they were used for prior to you getting them.

The CompCams P/N 12-430-8 Grind #280HR
  .224/.224 dur. @.050 .525/.525 lift. Has a 110* Lobe Sep. 106* Center/Line  with operating RPM 2000 to 5500.
Limited Hi-Performance street,Needs headers, aftermarket intake, higher stall convertor, 3:40 to 4:10 Gear. Mild to Rough Idle.

The CompCams  P/N 12-420-8 Grind #270HR
  .215/.215 dur. @.050 .500/.500 lift. Has a 110* Lobe Sep  106* Center/Line
With operating RPM 1800 to 5000
Noticeable Lopey idle, can use stock convertor,aftermarket intake,headers,3:40 to 4:10 rear gears.  

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skyeking
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 2738
Joined: 08/09
Posted: 11/29/12 08:54 PM

Hi People,
 Enjoy the ride with the 215 cam. Easier to live with and far less tuning..
 3.4's will suit that cam and you wont be looking for an O/drive as much..
  If drag racing try 14* to 38* timing to begin with..Don't make a piss
 bucket out of the 800 carby..A lot of trial and error in drag racing as you
 would know..With faster gearing you can add another 4* advance onto that cam
 IF you choose it..That's my 2 cents worth.. Good luck with the project..  
skyeking

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pepsi1
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1718
Joined: 09/11
Posted: 11/29/12 09:20 PM

Hi Noel:
  That's my choice also. The compression at 9:5 is really the controlling factor. I just spent the 1.5 hours on Crane Cams site. I like the cams they have but you know Crane they like spinning them. The 9:5 with a heavy car needs some bottom end, either one will do fine.
  You take care Buddy from the land down under....
Thanks for the imput
Bob  

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JTH55
V-6 Camaros rule!
Posts: 32
Joined: 11/12
Posted: 11/30/12 06:21 PM

pepsi1 thanx for the input.the heads are new they were put on a circle trac engine that never was put in the car.engine was parted out.the heads are angled with the larger pockets the headers on the 406 are 1.58" hedmans.what do u think the HP and tork would be with these combos.the motor makes great low end tork now but seems to run out of power around 5000 rpm.what is your oppinion on something around 555" lift with a 245 dur.again thanx for the advice u seem to be a well respected engine builder on this thread.  

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pepsi1
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1718
Joined: 09/11
Posted: 12/01/12 02:49 AM

JTH55
  Thank you so very much for your kind words. I really appreciate them. It's nice to hear a kind word from our fellow Gear Heads. I've been one for 58 years.

  The only thing that is holding the engine back is the low compression. The other factor is the 215 Dart Heads. They maybe running out of gas(so to speek). Of course the other thing the valve springs can also have lost their tension. They just can't keep up with the RPM the cam wants! With all that said.  

Lets say all those component parts are okay. You really need to spin the engine to get it to work. In your Cam Range of .550 lift here is what I came up with.

CompCam Extreme energy Cam P/N12-444-8 Grind #XR300HR
  .248/.254 Dur.@.050 .562/.580 Lift  3200 to 6200RPM Range
  110* Lobe Seperation and 106* Intake Center/Line
  Pro_Street/Bracket racing atleast 10:1:1 Compression Ratio. 3500RPM torque convertor. Very Good aftermarket intake manifold, headers Long tube.

CompCam Big Mutha Thumpr P/N 12-601-8 Grind #THR7
  .243/.257  Dur.@.050 .533/.519 Lift  2500 to 6200RPM Range
  107* Lobe Seperation 102* Intake Center/Line
  9:5:1 Compression Ratio 2800RPM Torque Convertor Very Good afternarket  
  Intake manifold, long tube headers, very rough idle.

Crane Cams P/N HR-234/365-2S-12.901G
  .234/.242  Dur.@,050  .548/.558 2800 to 6800RPM Range Good Mid Range Torque and Horse Power Needs 3000 torque convertor

Crane Cams P/N HR-230/352-2S1-81G
  .230/.238  Dur.@.050 .528/.548 2400 to 6400RPM Range

I'm going to go out on a limb and guesstimate the torque to be around 465 FT.LBS. and the HP 500. Thats not really with a good flowing head. You need a 220cc AFR with 2.06/1.6 valves. The compression ratio if it were 11:5:1 to 12:5:1 550 HP and  525FT.LBS.
Tahnks
Bob  

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pepsi1
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1718
Joined: 09/11
Posted: 12/01/12 02:54 AM

My dyno guy and I built a similar engine. A 406  with 581 Peak HP @ 6300,1.43 hp/ci
and 554 @ 4500 1.36 ft-lbs/ci.

Thats all I'll tell you...LOL...
Bob  

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JTH55
V-6 Camaros rule!
Posts: 32
Joined: 11/12
Posted: 12/01/12 05:10 PM

pepsi1 those cams are certainly something to consider.just wandering your oppinion on shaving the dart heads to get the comp.up to around 10.5.good or bad.the motor runs really strong now having no trouble shredding the belts off my 8.5"street tires.like i said got these heads and intake way under haif price so would like to use them.a hyd.roller is a big investment so this info.is much appreciated."only want to buy one"  

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pepsi1
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1718
Joined: 09/11
Posted: 12/01/12 11:36 PM

JTH55
Let me do some reasearch on that for you.
  If I were building this engine for myself. I would go to a Mechanical Solid Roller Cam. Here's the reason why...
  The weight of all the components of the hydraulic Roller Cam are really a limiting factor. The RPM suffers from the weight of those parts. The most you can get from a hydraulic roller is about 7000RPM.
  Now with a Solid Mechanical Roller, you cam spin an engine to 11,000 RPM given the correct components.  
  Mechanical Rollers do all the things right. With this engine combo the cam was only .588/.588 with .264/.274 but a lot of dur. With AFR 220cc heads. We dynoed it to 6600 RPM and it made 461-ft-lbs  and 581 HP. BSFC.0476. It made so much torque and horse power there was No need to spin it any higher. Down the lower end of the @4500RPM it made 554 ft-lbs. and 475 HP. At 11:5:1 it ran on 91 octane fuel.
 If this was in a 3000lb car.If it had a 4000 torque convertor and a trans brake and left at 5000RPM this would put you in the back seat. This is where the Mechanical Roller shines over a hydraulic cam. There is a little more maintainence on a Mechanical Roller Cam. Grin  Cool  

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pepsi1
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1718
Joined: 09/11
Posted: 12/02/12 01:33 AM

JTH55

Here is what I found out about, The Dart Pro-1 aluminum heads.

If you Flat Mill the heads you can go to a minimum of 58cc=.060"
      (.0065=1cc for flat milling)
For angle milling.
  .125 safely/.200"=49cc@1.5* very carefully....
Hope this helps...

Bob  

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pepsi1
I mow my lawn and find Chevys
Posts: 1718
Joined: 09/11
Posted: 12/02/12 01:35 AM

If you want to read something funny. On the Super Chevy forum. There is an 18 year old PITA kid that knows everything. He has pizzed me off...Read some of his crap. Its under 400?? his name is kain hall.
Bob  

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