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What heads do I need?
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cathleen
My first time was in a Chevy
| Posts: 161
| Joined: 11/08
Posted: 04/24/09 03:17 PM
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your vic jr, is a single plane intake which is good for topend power at expense of bottom end power. the airgap is a dualplane intake good everywhere till 6500rpm's. the vic's are good topend race application intakes. you will be better off with the airgap it is arguably the best dualplane intake. there is another dualplane that is really good, it's the stealth by weind. Summit also sells a airgap knockoff which is a little cheaper and probably runs about the same for less money unless you buy a airgap used
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cathleen
My first time was in a Chevy
| Posts: 161
| Joined: 11/08
Posted: 04/24/09 03:20 PM
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your motor will really wake up with the vortecs, I'm guessing your losing about 100hp! with those stockers depending on which one's they are. unless something else is wrong. your motor should be at 450hp anf ftlbs of tq. should easily break the tire's lose. If you have stock 350heads those things are (killing) your power
One other thing with a massive "lopey" "bumpy" cam. Ya they sound cool but they also kill bottom end power when there massive and need a 3500stall to get them in there power band. I wouldn't go more than about 490"s of lift which at that much it's still "lopey" but still has some bottom end to it. Also don't forget (ceramic) coated headers and atleast 2-1/2"exhaust and like some turbo muffler's flowmaster's etc. I purchased the 21.99 summit turbo's in a 3" and they sound awesome if I was to do it again I might get the turbo race muffler for more noise and better performance
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cathleen
My first time was in a Chevy
| Posts: 161
| Joined: 11/08
Posted: 04/24/09 03:33 PM
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Also you want rollerrocker's if you don't have them, And if you can afford it a rollercam conversion usually worth 10-30hp but costs a small fortune
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Redbeast1
V-6 Camaros rule!
| Posts: 47
| Joined: 11/07
Posted: 04/24/09 04:44 PM
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What you have to decide first is what you want out of this build. If you put together a mish-mash of parts you will build a noisy dog and be very disaponted in the results. Many high performance parts will physically bolt together but they must be matched to the power-band range you decide on, in order to work well together and give you the results you're looking for. The single plane manifold ( designed for high RPM )will not work well with low-end torque heads like the Vortec L31's. A long duration lopey cam will also not work well with a low-end torque build. It will sound great at idle but it'll be a dog with no torque until your engine crawls into the high powerband - if ever. If you are not willing, or unable to do the homework required, get advice from a performance engine builder, or tech center that you can trust, then I suggest you go with a matched system from one product line - like Edelbrock. If you already have the Vic Jr manifold, the Holley 750 CFM carb, forged pistons, and H-beam Rods - ( Most of these items you already have are engineered for high RPM applications ) then build on that. Get some systems matched Heads from Edelbrock ( not the Edelbrock Vortec knockoff's if your'e going for a high RPM build with that Single plane intake ) and you will be reasonably happy with your build. Call, or e-mail Edelbrock tech support and ask them for recommendations on heads, cam, pistons, compression ratio, exhaust diameter, rear-end gear ratio, stall converter, etc. and write everything down. Holley also has a good systems matched support group. If you decide to build for high RPM, I would not go any smaller than 3" exhaust with long tube headers and an x-pipe behind the headers. Personally, I like the high flow Flowmaster Super-40 mufflers. They've got a deep growl. Otherwise go with Cherry Bombs or other glass-pack muffler brands if you don't mind the dirty looks from the neighbors and the thumbs up from everyone else whose into performance. If you plan everyting out carefully you will not be disappointed with the overall result. Also don't cut corners with cheap gaskets and cheap bolt sets. Sometimes the smallest item you thought was not significant will bring everything to a very noisy grinding halt. Use ARP bolts and Felpro gaskets whereever possible.
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heshtesh
V-6 Camaros rule!
| Posts: 75
| Joined: 02/08
Posted: 04/24/09 05:52 PM
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Fosters69 the heads i offered you are edelbrock E-Tec 200cc completely redone that can handle .575 lift out of the box the vortec heads Cathleen is refering to have either 165cc or 170cc intake ports when they start to get over 5500rpm they start to breath with a little labour especially on a 383.When i offered you the heads i was also including a relatively new set of Comp steel rollers as i had previously mentioned with the price for both at 850.00 if anyone thinks they can come up with a better deal than that let me know i might be intrested.
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heshtesh
V-6 Camaros rule!
| Posts: 75
| Joined: 02/08
Posted: 04/24/09 06:18 PM
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Cathleen i generally agree with your views on different engine parts but i think you are wrong concearning the power output of the E-200s if you look up the test results you will find even the GM Fast Burn heads give up 19hp and 25 ft/lbs torque to the E200s and i would say the iron Vortecs are giving up a minimum of 30+ HP. The test i'm refering to was on a 9.5 to 1 350 those numbers will only increase on a 383.
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heshtesh
V-6 Camaros rule!
| Posts: 75
| Joined: 02/08
Posted: 04/24/09 11:13 PM
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Redbeast1; Kind of caught my attention with the Edelbrock Vortec knockoffs line,as i don't know of your previous experience with E-Tec 200cc heads i can only rely on my own exp. with them.To imply that alum.heads on the street are a liability is wrong on so many levels i won't even waste my time explaining the advantages to you.As for these heads not having the ability to produce power at high rpm,what do you consider high rpm as for me i consider the 6500 rpm i turned on a regular basis plenty of rpm for a daily driver street engine.These heads also had excellent low end torque considering the 200cc int. runners.There was a reason i utilized the E-Tec heads and after 3 years and 50,000 miles i have many good reasons to appreciate the choice i made.
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Pontiacman2
Everything in my driveway’s a Chevy
| Posts: 670
| Joined: 01/08
Posted: 04/25/09 04:31 AM
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I know it exceeds the $1000 budget but Your best bet would be to get some dart iron eagle heads like P#DRT-10321111P.
Professional hi-performance engine builder
Horsepower sells Engines and torque wins races.
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cathleen
My first time was in a Chevy
| Posts: 161
| Joined: 11/08
Posted: 04/25/09 11:09 AM
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Sorry I meant to say fosters. I didn't understand he was trying to sell you those heads and rockers, Those would be a great head for you with a great runner size about perfect for application. Edelbrock is one of the best combined with the rpm airgap intake your motor should make a ton of power.
gm fast burns arn't that great, 383's make 450hp and ftlbs of tq on gm vortecs all the time, a 170cc runner is a bit small for a 383, Dart iron eagles are going to run about the same as the vortecs, and e-tec
The price is reasonable I would pick those heads and rockers up edelbrock is a top name and those heads will perform.
If there aluminum that's even better in my oppinion less weight. You will have no problems with aluminum. Just keep your motor on the cool side. If you live in a hot climate water weter and larger fans etc.
The only thing bad about aluminum is if they get hot, It's like losing 1 compression point. Because they expand.
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cathleen
My first time was in a Chevy
| Posts: 161
| Joined: 11/08
Posted: 04/25/09 11:24 AM
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be carefull what you read.
There is a 383 that made 521hp and 490ftlbs of tq. But it was with a 2000k dollar set of cnc ported afr's. So you can see how big of a role heads play in performance. put those e-tecs and rockers on there. if your motor is running right you will have a new motor.
I'm guessing your making 350hp tops with those 350 heads.
For 850 I would spend the money on porting and make those good breathers, breath even better.
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heshtesh
V-6 Camaros rule!
| Posts: 75
| Joined: 02/08
Posted: 04/25/09 07:10 PM
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Cathleen i appreciate you taking the time to explain to Fosters69 that i am indeed trying to give him a good deal.I just want you to know they are in the shop right now being refreshed,there was nothing wrong with them it's just it would really bother me if i gave someone something less than what i indicated i was giving them.THE Comp steel rollers were on my winter truck less than 6 months and are like brand new.I also figured for 1,100.00 total Fosters69 could also buy an RPM Air Gap.
Have a good day Cathleen.
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cathleen
My first time was in a Chevy
| Posts: 161
| Joined: 11/08
Posted: 04/26/09 01:06 PM
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it's a deal for all of it, specially if there aluminum. edel makes stuff that performs well.
I think those heads were 1800$
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heshtesh
V-6 Camaros rule!
| Posts: 75
| Joined: 02/08
Posted: 04/26/09 04:38 PM
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Cathleen the heads are approx 1300.00 new the Comp rollers just under 300.00 and i suspect the refresh just over 200.00. They are aluminum come with guide plates'screw in studs,one piece stainless valves 2.02 int 160 exh.Also the intake ports are cnc port matched to the intake gaskets.
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cathleen
My first time was in a Chevy
| Posts: 161
| Joined: 11/08
Posted: 04/26/09 07:11 PM
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Ya I was looking at jegs, I thought I'd seen them for 1800. That cnc matching makes a difference. Another 30hp would be a solid cam. alot of people don't like to do valvelash periodic adjustments or like the extra valvetrain noise.
Also that match porting is worth 150-300+ depending on who you know I guess
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heshtesh
V-6 Camaros rule!
| Posts: 75
| Joined: 02/08
Posted: 04/26/09 08:10 PM
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Personally i love that extra valve train noise just about to roll out my first solid roller motor for street use, i,m running Crower solid rollers with 180 thou offset on the intake side,also for the first time i,m running a Jesel pedestal offset roller rocker system. A good friend who really knows his stuff indicated he would be really surprised if i had to look at my valve train clearances every ten thousand miles apparantly the Jesels are that good.I'll tell you i won't be bending over any time soon after paying for them. And hell it won't take but one or two beers to set the lash anyway.
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